Religion Debate

I think most people have experienced this when it comes to religion. No offence to anyone but i've experienced this most with Christians. Not all obviously, but some rather hardcore really just cannot take no for an answer. Even getting into the whole saving your soul.

So do people find this drives people away? Intrigues them? Or other?

I thought of this when i went to pick up my girls from sunday school. LOL yes my girls go to sunday school. I firmly believe in keeping an open mind when it comes to religion and exposing children to all religions not just your own so that when they are older enough they can make an INFORMED decision on what they choose to believe or not to believe.

Anyway, was picking them up and as usual get someone asking for me to stay for the service. I also get asked this when i drop them off. (Yeh because the hijab just doesn't give it away that i'm not interested, lol).

They are nice with it thankfully as i've met some pretty pushy christians when i lived down south. But how many times do i need to decline? Maybe they are confused because my kids go to sunday school, but it just gets annoying having to say no at least twice in a day every week. I am sure they mean well, but sorry it ain't happening.

Right, so anyway after my little waffle there, lol, what does everyone else think? Are some religions or denominations pushier than others? Does it make you want to avoid that religion? Is it good to be pushy and keep being insistent or should people find their own path?

Twenty-odd years ago, when I worked in sales, training seminars referred to the hard sell rather crudely as "leg-humping". This tactic, when successful, almost always results in sales springing from annoyance and a desire to be left alone, rather than a belief in or desire for the product. It very rarely leaves the customer feeling satisfied.

Personally, I think hard sell tactics are antithetical to religion entirely, and completely defeat its purpose. Furthermore, I know that anyone using those tactics on me, whatever the item they're trying to sell, has only their own interests and ideas in mind, and I may as well be a cardboard cutout for all I as an individual matter to them.

So, to the hard sell, my invariable response is...no thanks.

DD

***"Are some religions or denominations pushier than others? Does it make you want to avoid that religion? Is it good to be pushy and keep being insistent or should people find their own path?"***

I'm sorry you get the inquiry twice a day, every Sunday. If it's the same staff or people, who *know* they've asked this before, to me it's tantamount to being rude when persisting every Sunday. I applaud you for seeking to educate your children about other religions and teaching tolerance and respect for different beliefs than their own. You are one polite and courteous woman, to put up with this week after week, IMO. My concern, though, since these people are not approaching you in a condemnatory manner, hardcore pushing, etc., what is happening to your children when you are not there, in the Sunday school class? Have your children mentioned anything? Are they pushing your children to their beliefs, and trying to work through them, to get to you? To convert you as well as them, IOW? That would be my concern, and why I never let my young DD be alone with such programs, but studied them, got books, went together to a festival or open house *together* so that there would not be an attempt to convert her, and then through her, DH & I. That, what I would describe as an underhanded strategy, would make me angry. Very angry. >>:=\\

As far as your questions, yes, hard sell evangelism would push me definitely away. I *do* know Christian churches are definitely not all the same, nor do they actually interpret their holy book, the Bible, or their religion's tenets exactly the same, though, so I wouldn't brand *ALL* of Christianity negatively because of just one church experience. Maybe that particular *denomination,* if I kept finding the same thing, but I would check out other congregations of that specific denomination first, providing I was interested enough in that denomination as to finding a spiritual community to join. Sometimes it's the leadership that effects the "tone" and approach used, KWIM? And not reflective of the entire denomination.

I think it *is* pushy and rude and disrespectful to keep insisting when the target person has said "no thanks." I believe there is no one true belief system/religion out there. We've all got a "piece" of the pie, but not the *WHOLE* pie. I remember an analogy I read in a Unitarian Universalist book. We're all standing inside this huge cathedral-like building. Huge windows on all sides. Bright light is shining through all the windows, and each of us is facing one window or another. The bright light is spiritual truth, reality, the universal force, etc. While each of us *sees* the light, we see through different windows of different colored glass and figures, and we interpret what we see to make sense within our own hearts, spirits and minds. So each of us comes away thinking that the spiritual truth, reality, universal force is somewhat different, and go out and start our own churches/temples, traditions, write our own sacred texts and gather with others who see things the way we do, or want to. And so we have become separate from each other, distancing ourselves from that common experience we all had. So, I accept that I don't have "all the answers" as a Pagan and Wiccan. I have also practiced Christianity (several denominations) as well as Zen Buddhism, plus have always been a spiritual seeker. Reading and meditating and trying to understand and figure things out, following my own individualized path and journey. I try hard to maintain respect and tolerance for people around me, seek peaceful co-existence. Sometimes that can be very difficult with some people, but I do try. The way I see it, religion can be one of the most divisive disturbers of peace between people, and with the wrong leadership, can be violent and capable of horrible acts perpetuated against others who believe differently. To me, being pushy, or insistent, or "in your face" constantly, vocal that there is only *one* way to believe, and all others evil and wrong, is a sign of this destructiveness that can happen in any religion, and not conducive at all to peaceful co-existence. So, yes, I "run" the other way, and I protected my child from such, also, when she was growing up (she is an adult now).

Blessings,
Gypsy
)O(




"What is life? It is the flash of a firefly in the night.
It is the breath of a buffalo in the wintertime.
It is the little shadow which runs across the grass
and loses itself in the sunset.

- Crowfoot, Blackfoot warrior and orator






Mika Dog

"All things share the same breath;
the beast, the tree, the man.
The Air shares its spirit with
all the life it supports."
--Chief Seattle

"If there are no dogs in Heaven,
then when I die I want to go where they went."
~Will Rogers

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress
can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
~~Mahatma Gandhi

Is it always the same person asking? If not, they might just be confused because your girls go to Sunday school and they might think that means you're actually deep down interested in Christianity.

If it is the same person asking, you might have to politely but directly say that you are very happy in Islam and have no interest whatsoever in their faith.

Wow, what a well thought out post, thank you.

In answer to your question. Its the same 3 or 4 people. The person who runs the sunday school, the girls sunday school teacher and then two other people who i always manage to "run in to". I do sometimes help out at the sunday school, especially at first because i have a very shy child. I don't worry so much about what they are teaching the girls because at this point they are still quite young (3 and 4). They wanted to go because their friend goes, which is why i am happy to drop them off because my friend goes to that church (her daughter is my girls' friend). My friend is very non pushy. I've made it clear that i'm happy in my faith and its quite clear i'm not christian (i don't wear western clothes). I have explained that i want my girls to be open about religion and find their own path. But i think they are rather hopeful, lol. They aren't ever rude about it, just inquiring but it gets a tad annoying because its pretty much every week.

I've even told them that the girls also go a playgroup at a local jewish temple and they also have Qur'an classes in the evenings. They do love the Qur'an classes best as they get to learn a different language too, lol. But they enjoy bible school even if some of the bible lessons are way over their head.

I totally agree with the other part of your post. I firmly believe we all find our own paths. And i believe God has set out different paths so that people can find their own way, rather than just one path which is the only way to Him. I think thats part of what drove me away from Christianity, not that i was ever hardcore, but i had trouble grasping this one path thing and that other people were just gonna burn in hell or something. I always questioned that sort of vengeful God as it just didn't fit with the picture in my head. Now i've found my own path and found a place where God fits that picture and is more opening, welcoming to people.

I go to MSA meetings (Muslim Student Association) and a couple weeks ago we had a talk about tolerance. That tolerance didn't simply mean tolerating something. But understanding that we are all different, even within the same religion. And that we should embrace our differences. How can we ever accept and love others from outside our religion if we cannot accept and love those within our religion for their differences? You don't just tolerate someone, you welcome them with open arms despite all our differences. I found that to be a very powerful message and i wish more religious people would follow it.