I have read several posts where the WS has whined about the past being thrown in his face and I thought I would share how I addressed this with DH. I would like to say I came up with it, but like so many of you, I got this from reading here.
After he gave me that line about throwing the past in his face I told him, "This is my present. I have an H who I cannot trust. (Here I gave him several examples of people he no longer trusted for relatively minor infractions) Can you blame me for not trusting you after all the outright lies, white lies and lies of omission given you can't trust these people after what little they did? This isn't about throwing the past in your face, this is about learning from your past and present behavior that you cannot be trusted. Trusting you right now would be like putting my hand in the mouth of a rabid dog after having been bitten once already. You may know that you are not lying right now, but how am I to know that? I trusted that you weren't lying twice before and I was wrong. You did such a good job of it before, how do I know you haven't learned how to lie better? I gave you the benefit of doubt once and you continued to lie. Why should I believe that you aren't lying now? You did this to both of us, I didn't choose this, and I don't like living this way. You are darned lucky I choose to stay. These are the consequences of your choices. Live with it or get out."
After Dday #2, I was crying and shaking my head calling myself a fool for trusting him again. I just kept calling myself a fool. I think this moment was an epiphany moment for him. He realized how he had completely failed me and himself. From then on, he worked hard at being transparent. He would actually stop himself sometimes and say, "No, I have to show you I can be trusted." Then he would tell me about seeing OW, even if it was just from a distance, or tell me how she had tried to make contact, or let me see his phone, or answer tough questions. This was a year after Dday #1. Most often people use the analogy of the affair fog, but I sometimes think of the WS's recovery of their senses like peeling away the layers of an onion. Each epiphany is another layer. It took DH another year to really get why what he did was so terrible and why it was so damaging to me and our M. He saw the damage, he just didn't understand how his EA did the damage. He once said that if I didn't have a problem, there wouldn't be a problem. I agreed and told him that this was true, and I wouldn't have a problem if I didn't care. When it got to the point where I no longer cared, there would be no problem because there would be no M.
There are always consequences to one's behavior. If a WS doesn't want to pay the piper, well....
Spot on, Pamme! Your H and mine sound quite alike, and we've had similar conversations (nowadays with similar positive results, hooray).
I'd like to comment further on:
“Most often people use the analogy of the affair fog, but I sometimes think of the WS's recovery of their senses like peeling away the layers of an onion.”
I see the same thing.I could never get behind the "sick" theory (seems too much like an “insanity excuse"), and "fog" never seemed an accurate enough word, either. Watching my H work his way back to clarity has seemed very much like peeling away layer after layer of issues, all built up over many years.
More people than not never sink so low as to have an A, regardless of how many problems they have, so it seems to me that it must take an unusual amount of mental and/or emotional deterioration for a person to reach the point of making and rationalizing such detrimental decisions. Similarly, it seems to take a lot for them to reach a point where their thinking isn't so muddled, where their reality more closely resembles that of other people's, and where they realize that they are not exempt from the consequences of their behaviors. It's hard to be patient through the process, though, especially as a wounded BS.
Of course, if a WS doesn't even try to get through those layers, and instead insists on remaining as rationalizing and self-centered as they ever were, there doesn't seem much point for a BS to continue trying to reach such a person. People are not meant to be expendable. Neither are their feelings. Betrayal can't be ignored away.
“There are always consequences to one's behavior. If a WS doesn't want to pay the piper, well....”
And that’s the way it is in all of life, not just Ms that have been fouled by an A.Once that “just get over it” or “quit throwing my A in my face” mentality is replaced by compassion from the WS for the BS, the WS may be showing signs of new maturity, and some healthy thinking may be making its way back in. It can be a beautiful thing to watch someone grow up and become a better person.
It can also be heartbreaking if they never do (grow up), and that's when I think we have to reevaluate our circumstances. Life isn't just too short, it's too darn long to be treated poorly day after day with no hope for communication or change anywhere down the road. Who wants to be married tosomeone who doesn't seem to care how their A affected their S, anyway?
That's a real nice post. It really is, it says so much. Tell me something, will you ever completely trust him again?
It funny, your story is similar to mine in that my husband also never ever is impatient or unkind or wants me to just get over it now. He may have been like that in the beginning, I'd say in the first 6 months after dday. But now he realizes the consequences of adultery on a good woman can be devastating and long lasting. I mean, I am good now, but every once in a while I cry. And there is nothing he can do about it. His impatience, anger, it just won't heal me or take away the pain. So, he just is there for me. And that' s how it is now.
Like you the transparency for me has been helpful. In fact, I couldn't stay with him if we didn't have this transparent arrangement now.
And there ARE consequences for the WS that are long lasting. Their life IS changed. In our case he seems happy with the changes. They are different for him, the changes are all better for me. He will say over and over he loves our life together now. He loves spending time with me and doing things with me and he is very happy with how it is now. That's all good because the changes had to happen, I couldn't live with a cheater and the way he was towards me. I had sacrificed so much of myself to put up with who he was. And then, when I found out about his evil side, I could not longer tolerate the way I was treated. I almost think I let myself be treated like crap for so long, like he had is way with me and it degerated into complete lack of respect. But he changed completely and he says he is very happy this way. So all that is good. It's nice to be able to express myself about this with people who understand. No one else would understand. They are all space cadets until the unthinkable happens and have to wade through all this muck to find a new life. It's a journey all right. Thanks for letting me share this.
Yes, it is a beautiful thing to watch the layers slough off like diseased, flaky skin and see the new skin emerge. The thing that most BS miss in the beginning is that the WS needs to have a REASON to work their way to middle and given the state they are in, the state in which having an A is logical, Dday is not enough reason, the BS's pain, or even their children's pain is not enough reason. They are usually so far gone that the only thing that will motivate them is their own pain, or inconvenience. BS tend to make it too easy on the WS at the beginning.
It has always amazed me what the OW/M take from the WS. They allow themselves to be used, to be second place. That allow themselves to be treated in horrible ways, ways that they would never accept in a regular relationship. It has also amazed me what us BS take from the WS, too. If the situation were any different, say the issue was alcohol abuse, we wouldn't fight so hard to keep our spouse, we wouldn't take the humiliation and pain the WS hand out and ask for more. After four years of being on these boards, I still have not figured out why this is true. Why do we stay with such damage people who won't even try to fix themselves? Why do we settle?
It is wonderful to see a man do the hard work it make himself worthy of being with you even if it is also sometimes painful. The end result is worth it. DH is an amazing man who continues to grow and to nurture our M. He learned a hard lesson with his EA that he has not forgotten.
One of my favorite saying is, "Time ages people like it ages wine, if the grapes are good."
No, I will never entirely trust him again. That would be foolish. I see that he has learned many things about himself and has changed those things that made him vulnerable to having an A. He has changed the way he approaches me and our M. He no longer takes me for granted and he makes sure that our M is healthy. These things give me confidence that he won't be cheating any time soon, but I will never say he could never have another A.
I think that everyone, even us BS have our vulnerabilities that make an A possible under the right conditions. It is possible for anyone to have an A. So, I don't see my lack of total blind trust as a bad thing. I will never trust anyone like that again. This lack of total trust keeps me from taking anything for granted. It is a motivation for me to make sure that our M is healthy. I don't settle anymore.
I don't cry about the EA anymore, heck, I don't think about it except when I occasionally come here. This is remarkable given xOW works at the same place and I have to occasionally see her. I never thought I would get here, I never thought that ever present ache would go away. It does.
Love 
