Cyber-Cheating & Emotional Affairs

I found your old post.  I know how this feels. The continued searching and the what ifing and the fantasizing that he is doing with these other women.... makes you feel less than. It makes you question yourself ...Why am I not enough for him?

YOU ARE ENOUGH AND YOU ARE LOVABLE. HE HAS DEEP INTERNAL ISSUES THAT HE NEEDS TO DEAL WITH.  

It sounds as if your husband is a lot like my husband. He liked to escape reality with the fantasy world. He would start these little romances with these women all the while he ignored me. I know how you feel ...I felt like something was wrong with me ...why can't he be close to me...why don't he treat me the way that he treats them....

My husband had issues in which he would not let me emotionally close but he did not want a real relationship that was emotionally close either. He wanted the feeling of closeness without the reality of closeness. He was in his own twisted way emotionally protecting himself.  That is why he started this type of relationship. In his head it was fantasy, he had no plans on leaving me but he was feeding the fantasy daily. He had to have interaction to feed the fantasy. It created chemical highs for him. It made him feel good about himself. He got to feel close to someone while he kept everyone shut out.

I am not saying this is exactly why your husband is doing "the looking" after marriage. But counseling woul be beneficial to getting to the root of his problem.

Big hug!!!

FiveDiamondWife

May I ask?  How did you survive your husband's issues?  That's what I need.  I need to hear from people who experienced the things that I'm going through to gain insight.  I want to understand, and I want to learn to be strong to overcome it.

Part of my problem now is the jeolousy and the insecurity I feel toward his niece "friend".  Partially, because she's physically close by and because he had proclaimed his love to her before.  All the other "friends"...I guess out of sight, out of mind.  That one chat that I recently discovered with a college student, eh, whatever.  The only thing that bothered me about it is he said he would call her to talk.  Like you said, he must be getting some thrills out of it.

Enlighten me.  Thank you again.

With deep sincerity.

May I ask?  How did you survive your husband's issues? 

My husband too was a serial offender.

 I never really knew what emotional affairs were at the beginning. I had never heard of them. I like you did not believe that he was sleeping with them but he seemed interested in everything about them (obsessed). I would ask him if he had a thing for these women and he would just deny it. But it felt weird when we interacted as a group. I just constantly felt unloved, unwanted, and unimportant to my husband. He would ignore me and strive to give this woman attention. So the woman that he chose always had two men giving her attention. I was always the odd person out.  He would constantly compare me to these women that he was working with. I seemed to always measure short in his eyes. I always felt less than. I worked harder and harder in the marriage to prove that I too was worthy. It did not matter. It was never enough. 

I knew something was not quite right about my marriage and I assumed that I was somehow unlovable. He always wanted to go out with these other couples. His type (MO)was single female coworkers with a boyfriend. He would find ways to double date with these couples. We would spend entire weekends with them. He claimed that it was friendship that he sought. He would make friends with the boyfriend and just get to spend time with these women.(I found this out much later.) So when we were around them he was always talking to the girlfriend, making eyes at the girlfriend, complimenting the girlfriend, doing little things for this other guys girlfriend. I felt ignored, unimportant and just generally invisible to my husband and sometimes to the couple that we were with. I felt like a non person.

When we had children, I could no longer go out with him as part of the his new work group. He had changed jobs. He started working with this single divorced woman with an out of state boyfriend. He would call from work and on short notice tell me that him and a group from work were going out for the evening. (I could not get a babysitter on short notice.)  He neglected to tell me that it was other married couples from work and he and this woman were making another couple. It was always a group going out. Then one day he called and told me that the group was going out, but long story short it was just him and this other woman. He got into her car and they basically went on a date. I found out. He said that it was not a date since it was not planned. He said that it was like going out with "Bob or Steve."  I told him that I was very hurt and he should not have gone out alone with her. In my eyes it was a date. He tried to deny but I was not buying any of it. I told him the difference was that he did not want to have sex with Bob or Steve, but I had seen the looks that he had given her at an office dinner party...I had seen the little gifts that he was taking her. That denial that anything was going on was futile. To my amazement he came clean not just about her but about all these other women from the past that he had denied to me before. He told me that his feelings for this woman (Bird Girl)did not compare at all to what he felt for Clown girl.  He was trying to deflect my attention away from what was going on at the moment by adding this distracting information. I told him promptly that we would address that later but right now I wanted to deal with the problem at hand.

I told him that all interaction other than business interaction with this woman was to cease.  I had a hard time knowing that she worked daily with him. So I later requested that he quit his job. That is when the crap hit the fan. He told me that I was trying to control him . That I was trying to manipulate him into doing what I want him to do. I looked him straight in the eye and smiled and said NO. YOU are completely free to make all and any choices that you want to make. If you want to live the single lifestyle....if you want to date these women... you want that apartment that you have been daydreaming of (he told me that he had fantasies about having an apartment where he was free to pursue these women) then I will set you free and you can pursue that life. I will take full responsibility for the children and you can be free. I want you to be happy.  

But if you choose to stay with me and live a married life then I expect some big changes in the marriage that I will no longer accept status quo. I expected him to act married. I expected some romance and displays of affection.  I told him that he could no longer pretend to be single and continue to stay married to me. I told him that he could continue to make any choice that he wanted to make but if I found that his choices did not protect me, my feelings and the marriage then I would be making a few choices of my own to protect my self.

I told him to think about what I said carefully and tell me in a few days which life he wanted because he could not live with his foot in both worlds. I deserved a husband that loved me and only me. I wanted to feel loved honored and cherished and his behavior did not make me feel any of that. I told him that he was stealing time thought and energy from our marriage and giving it to other relationships.  He was to take the time thought and energy that he had been investing elsewhere and to put it back into our marriage immediately. CONTACT WITH THESE WOMEN WERE TO CEASE.

He came to me later and told me that he would be quitting his job and that he wanted to be married to me. He gave the fantasizing up and with much honesty and talk over the last four years... we have gotten to the root of the problem and together we have come up with solutions for making our marriage whole. It is a team effort and you can not do it alone. He has to want this more than he wants these little side romances. It is a hard long journey filled with love, sweat and tears but it can be made right if he is willing to become introspective and do some soul searching and change the choices that he is making. You deserve a husband that is there in mind and body. Right now you have a husband whose body comes home but his mind is always wandering other places.

If he does not cooperate ...One of the things that you can do if you are trying to get emotionally stronger is practice the 180 list. (Look in the old posts on the Betrayed Spouse board and you will find it.) It is designed to build back confidence and emotional strength. I also attended counseling alone at first. I was able to build back my erroded self esteem and I was able to realize that I was lovable and that I would be 100% ok without him. I would miss him but I would be just fine if he decided to continue to make these choices.

 Part of my problem now is the jeolousy and the insecurity I feel toward his niece "friend".  Partially, because she's physically close by and because he had proclaimed his love to her before.  All the other "friends"...I guess out of sight, out of mind.  That one chat that I recently discovered with a college student, eh, whatever.  The only thing that bothered me about it is he said he would call her to talk.  Like you said, he must be getting some thrills out of it.

He has crossed the lines with his neice/ friend before. Why does he think that it is now ok to resume this "friendship"? You need to speak up and tell him that because of past issues that this "friendship' is no longer acceptable. Of course you feel jealous of this person, he  has written her love letters and poems and revealed that he has feelings for her more than just family kind of love. He by his actions has made her a rival for his affection. How messed up is that?  You should not have to beg your husband to be loyal and faithful. Either he wants to be faithful or he does not. In my opinion writing another woman a love letter is not a definition of fidelity. He may be like most men and think that he can  FANTASIZE, flirt, make eyes, write poetry, share too much personal stuff, make inuendoes, and anything else that he want to do as long as part A does not enter part B.... then he thinks that he has not cheated. SO.. SO... WRONG. It is so hurtful to the spouse who is left behind as he emotionally pursues another. Emotionally he is investing elsewhere. You feel drained because you are the only one nurturing and caring for the marriage emotionally.  It is just as heart breaking as discovering physical affair  to discover that your husband is emotionally attached himself to someone else.

Integrity is the ability to do the right thing even when no one is looking. He is not showing integrity toward your marriage or your feelings. He should be carrying you in his heart 24/7. Everything that he says or does should reflect that he is protecting you and the marriage.

  All the other "friends"...I guess out of sight, out of mind.

Well I tried that route too... he denied anything other than friendship ...said I never liked any of his friends... had me feeling angry and guilty for bringing it up...and then I would go into denial too. I would tell myself it's nothing but I was still left with that inadequate feeling about myself. Why can't he love me? It must be something about me.  He sees special things in all of these other women but why not me. My self esteem plummeted.  An even though I knew something was not right, I denied it to myself just to survive the moment.

 You will come to a point where there is nothing left to give him. He will have made withdrawal after withdrawal from your emotional bank acccount. He will have made little if any deposits.  He will come to you wanting one more emotional withdrawal and emotionally you have nothing to give him. You will have so little that you can barely keep yourself afloat.  I told my husband that emotionally he was overdrawn from my account and if he want to make any future withdrawals then he would have to start making bigger deposits in the relationship.  Then I got busy taking care of me.

I hope this helps. You can also look back through some of my old posts. My husband suffered from Limerence/ serial EA's and the last one a possible PA but he says it was not (not really sure as they spent time alone together).

Look limerence up on wikipedia. We did not know or understand what limerence was until I accidentally ran across it and it fit what my husband was doing. I have a super long post that describes in depth the things that I went through with my husband.  Limerence/ Anyone have a limerent spouse?  is one of these posts that helped me work through some of the issues.

Your husband may be addicted to cyber cheating/cyber romance. It is all a slippery slope to affairland.  It is not productive or healthy conduct for a married man if he values his marriage, his relationship with you and your feelings.

FiveDiamondWife

Wow, God bless you.  Thank you for telling me your story.  I hope it didn't hurt you to retell everything.  You are such a strong woman.  I need to learn to be where you are.  You're my inspiration.

I will do my homework and do as you suggest.  I tried personal counseling for about 1-2 months.  My counselor was a man.  He seems to support me, of course.  But didn't seem to keep track of the details of things that happened to me.  I had to remind him why things bother me.  Of course, his first few words at the first meeting was "dump him."  He did give me some homework to learn to be strong, but I did not really follow through. 

I need to now because after 8 months, I'm still on a roller coaster.  I'm not sure if it's because I know my husband still yearn for contact with her, although he tells me that he didn't miss her at all and that I'm all he think of.  Yet I found out that he is not using his cell to call her anymore because he knows I check the phone record.  I know that he used our "home" phone to call her recently.  I cannot check this "home" phone record.  Yes, it's been 1.5 months since the last time they spoke.  But still, why does he still talk with her when he knows how much she upset me.  Not only that, I had asked him to stop have any contact with her for now while I learn to be stronger to tolerate their "only friend" relationship.  Yet, he still find other ways to stay in touch.  He even lied to my face when I asked him if he talked to her recently.  He said, "No."  On record, it was less than 1 week ago.  I said, "Don't lie even though you think you are protecting me."  He did not have the courage to tell me the truth.  I know their conversations are nothing romantic.  But she's still important to him somehow for him to find other ways to communicate with her.  Do you know?  The last time they called each other was on her birthday.  After her son's Bday party, she emailed him to "thankyou".  He left that email prompter for days.  Then he replied on her Bday.  Next thing I know, she called him...must be to thank him for a birthday wish.

See, to him, all of that is innocent.  To me, that's sneaking around and being there for her on her important day.  Making her feel special.  Is it all in my imagination?  I know I'm making it bigger than what it is.  But I don't want him to care for her or for her children (although they're innocent in this).  Thank goodness he cannot stand her husband.  Otherwise, my husband would be more open to be with their family.  He told me before that all she call to talk about is what's going on with her children: how they're doing in school and the extracurricular activities that they are involved in.  To me,  excuse my language, who gives a damn.  He does not talk to anybody else in his family that often to see how they're doing.  So why what's going with her and her kids important?  Everybody else wait till little family gatherings to do so.  Why does she need to call him?

I know it's mean if you only look at the familial roles.  Of course there's nothing wrong if you call each other up once in awhile to see how things are.  But he doesn't call anybody else.  He doesn't establish contact lines with anybody else.  He told me once that she does not "judge" him and that he knows whatever he tell her, stays.  She doesn't gossip it to anyone else in the family.  Now, he knows that it's "safe" because she's family or because she wouldn't let their relationship to be romantic?  Like I told you, she stopped all contact (supposedly) with him after he started proclaiming his love for her.  Then somehow they started talking again.  He told me he thinks it's because she know he wouldn't do anything or go any further.  Well that's when he was emailing her love poems...God made you for me, you're my soulmate, I want to be one with you.  She replied that it's too early.  He replied it's never too early or late to love her.  He was safe, that's when he emailed her a picture of our 4 month old saying "this is a picture of your son takened this morning."  

Does she love his attention or need it?  To me, I would feel sick to my stomach if my uncle did that to me.  I would feel sorry for him and be civil with him at family get togethers but would not make any more contact than I would have to.  Why does she still?  What also does not make sense is that.. why at family gatherings, they don't act like they're fond of each other.  They keep a ten foot pole between them.  If your relationship is innocent, your conversations are innocent, your feelings to each other are innocent, then display them in public and in front of other family members.  I'm very close to one of my male cousins.  Everybody in the family knows it.  My husband knows it.  I haven't emailed or talked to him alot in years because I'm busy with my children and my life.  I should make more time for him.  But my priorities are different.  My husband, on the other hand, has four children to tend to, has his career to focus on, has a filthy house to help his wife to keep, yet he still have time and energy to roam around.

He told me he got lost because he felt lonely.  Yes, I was wrong to have been so harsh on him before.  But since I understand his needs more now and supposedly know why he needed to do what he did, I have been so tolerant and patient and loving toward him.  I don't nag at all.  I go buy his clothes, which I never did in my life.  On the surface, things are sweet.  But we cannot seem to talk about our emotions, although we did well a couple of days ago.

Anyway, I wish I can vomit to make me feel better.  Sorry I've blabbering on and on.  I just want my feelings toward her to disappear because they are making me half the person that I am.  When my husband show me love, I'm okay.  When he doesn't or forget to, I start wondering.  I don't want to depend on him like that.  I want to be strong.

Thank you again.  I need to do a little homework to be where you are.  I hope you all the best that you deserve in a marriage and in a life with so much tempations.  Bless your heart for reaching out to others.

Sincerely,

 Super4karats,

First of all Big Hug!!!

You need to continue with your counseling, even if it is not the same counselor. You are allowed to find a more helpful counselor if you feel the one you have is not truly listening to you and helping you find the intropection that you need to find. Some counselors out there do not believe in emotional affairs. You said this man is supportive so I assume that means that he believes that this is a serious problem to you and your marriage.I am not so sure that it was helpful of him to say dump him at the first meeting. But maybe he thought you needed to hear it hang out there as a possibility.

 He did give me some homework to learn to be strong, but I did not really follow through. 

Do that homework. You are there to get stronger. You are paying him to get stronger. You have to do the homework in order to learn and grow.

 He even lied to my face when I asked him if he talked to her recently.  He said, "No."  On record, it was less than 1 week ago.  I said, "Don't lie even though you think you are protecting me."  He did not have the courage to tell me the truth. 

Lies steal intmacy in a marriage. There should be no lies. If lies are being told them intimacy is being stolen. Do you not deserve and intimate marriage?

 Even lies of omission are still lies. In other words that person knows what is really going on but says nothing and lets the other partner just assume what they want.  It is one partner establishing control over the relationship by omitting details that they know is pertinent. The other partner has a limited number of facts to base their decisions. The omitting partner is controling the other spouse by limiting knowledge.

There is also a thing called gaslighting. It is a form of psychological abuse. It happens when a person has facts that show something is not quite the way it is being presented. You confront the spouse with the issue.  But the confronted  spouse denies the facts. The spouse claims that the exact opposite is true. It leaves the spouse who has found the inconsistences with much emotional confusion. You can look up gaslighting on the internet.

YOU NEED TO TRUST YOUR GUT FEELING!!!!! IT WILL NEVER LEAD YOU WRONG!!!

Not only that, I had asked him to stop have any contact with her for now while I learn to be stronger to tolerate their "only friend" relationship. 

Once the toothpaste is out of the tube it can never be put back inside. He needs to understand this and you need to be very firm about it.  Once a line has been crossed in a relationship... then you can't go back and undo it.  He hurt you tremendously and this will not be undone in a few months time. He needs to get that. You are experiencing deep emotional trauma because of his actions. You are still vomiting. Are your feelings worth less than his? It is not an ok thing to do then or now. She is no friend to you or your children.  She can never again be called a friend to him because of the pain it would cause you. If he cares about you, the marriage and your relationship then your well being should be all that matters.

He should have respect your wishes and went no contact and stayed no contact.

Please do not go into denial like I did.  What you just wrote says it all.

 He told me he thinks it's because she know he wouldn't do anything or go any further. 

But why does he feel that these words were even justified. He as a married man has no excuse to be saying any of these things. Why was there the need to do it at all? Who is he kidding? There was intent behind those words. He moved the boundaries a bit when he spoke them. You move the boundaries a bit today to see how far it goes. You move the boundaries again tomorrow. You inch the boundaries just a little further to see how far you get but when you get caught you claim... SEE I did not cross the ultimate line. No he may not have slept with her YET but he is standing at the line gazing longingly across it and wondering how the grass feels on that side of the fence. It is just as bad.

 Well that's when he was emailing her love poems.

The only person that he should be emailing love poems is you.

..God made you for me,

Well if God made her for him then what exactly is your purpose and why exactly is he married to you? I think that I would get tough and start asking him some very pointed questions.

 you're my soulmate,

Your husband needs a knot jerked in his tail as my grandmother would say.  I would say that I am not going to be in a marriage of 3 with you pining and longing for some other woman. I am not going to spend the rest of my life caring for some other woman's soulmate. If she is going to get all the praise and glory then she needs to get the work of said soulmate.  I will no longer be doing laundry, cooking, and taking care of someone else's soulmate.  

 I want to be one with you. 

Well this statement shows with out a doubt if she would join him then they would have been one in the biblical sense. You can not deny that. His intent was stated  loud and clear.

 She replied that it's too early. 

I think this makes clear her intent too. She did not call him a sicko (considering that he is her uncle ...it is creepy). She did not cut him down. She actually gave him hope for the future. She said that it is too early right now but maybe a bit farther down the road.

 He replied it's never too early or late to love her. 

So he basically said that he will wait until she is ready.

 He was safe, that's when he emailed her a picture of our 4 month old saying "this is a picture of your son takened this morning."

He was safe means that he is not going to go around telling anyone what they have been talking about. 

I would want to vomit too.  Something weird is going on in his head if he is calling your 4 month old ....her son.  Too me that means that the fantasy he/ she has playing says that your baby is actually hers and she is the mother /meant to be the mother or is his potential mother on down the road.  That my dear is WEIRD. Did he completely forget that you gave birth to this child? What is exactly does that make you and what exactly is his plan for you on down the road? He needs to get some counseling.

My husband, on the other hand, has four children to tend to, has his career to focus on, has a filthy house to help his wife to keep, yet he still have time and energy to roam around. 

Fantasyland does not require anything of him. Fantasyland is beautiful. There are no yards to mow, walls to paint, leaky faucets to fix or crying children to deal with in fantasyland.

I am in no way advocating it but...Wouldn't it be so nice to escape to fantasyland yourself? No laundry to worry about. AHHH only a flirty email from a guy on the net telling you how great you are and you can tell him how great he is too. Wouldn't that feel wonderful?  No dinner to cook. Just waiting to hear back from a friend about how special you are. No children to look after. Just love poems to write to the guy down the street and see what he responds back. Do you see what I am saying? It feels good but is that the adult married thing to do. It is not something a grown married man should be investing in. He should be investing all of his efforts into you and his family. If he does that properly, then  looking outside the marriage would not be a problem. He has enough to worry about at home. It would completely fill his day if he did what needed and should be done.

Honey you don't do these things and there is no need for him to do these things. He is making excuses to escape reality and take trips to fantasyland. He has somehow played on your sympathy and convinced you that he needs and deserves these trips (frienships and I use the term loosely). He can't take the trip to fantasyland without the special friendships. He makes you feel sorry for him so he can go do this. But it is not an adult response to real life pressures. Escapism just creates more problems because reality is not being dealt with. There are other ways ..much healthier ways for him to learn to cope. Ways that do not involve destroying your selfesteem and your health.

The burdens of reality are falling on your shoulders while he escapes. This is affecting your physical and emotional health.

 He told me he got lost because he felt lonely. 

No he got lost because he has poor coping skills.

Sweetie did you not feel lonely too. Did you not feel lonely while he was doing this? Do you not feel lonely now that he is still lying about contact? Do you not feel that you are in a marriage by yourself with him having his head and feet out the door? Was your solution to find another partner or friend? No it was not! You are trying to deal with things in a mature manner. You have tried and tried to deal with reality but how can you deal with reality when your partner lives in fantasyland. You are now in counseling because you are dealing with his overflow issues that are now affecting your life. You cope in a healthy productive way by facing reality head on and he copes by escapism.   In my opinion his lonilness...This is just and excuse to continue the behavior. There is no excuse that makes this ok.

 Yes, I was wrong to have been so harsh on him before. 

No my dear you have not been harsh enough. Do not buy the BS that he is selling. I am not talking about screaming and yelling at him for this. You should never scream and yell. I am talking about sitting down and having a deep discussion about how this escapism is effecting your health and the health of the marriage and that something has to give or decisions will be made. Nothing harsh about that when you speak the truth. Sometimes the truth needs to be spoken.

 But since I understand his needs more now and supposedly know why he needed to do what he did, I have been so tolerant and patient and loving toward him.  I don't nag at all.  I go buy his clothes, which I never did in my life.  On the surface, things are sweet.  But we cannot seem to talk about our emotions, although we did well a couple of days ago.

Let me guess he said that he did this because you were too busy taking care of the kids and ignoring him, that you never bought him clothes and in general could have been a better wife to him. Well BOO HOO HOO cry me a river. Do not fall for this OH POOR LITTLE ME ACT. You are raising four children. They demand attention. If he would step in and give them that attention at least half the time then that would free you up to give him more attention. If he would do half the chores then you would have time to give him more attention.  He needs to get real.  It takes two to make a marriage go. How often does he schedule dates? How often does he bring you little presents? How often does he buy you clothes? How often does he buy the children clothes? How often does he cook dinner? How often does he put out that extra special effort for you and the family? Has he ever cleaned your car? When was the last time he brought you home flowers? Aren't you just as important as him and don't you deserve just as much attention?  He wants the comfort that you bring him but is not willing to provide you any comfort. He wants the security of your relationship but his behavior is not providing you any security. You will never have a secure feeling with him as long as he continues to do this.

He will do this as long as you let him.

My advice to you.....You get out there and stand up for yourself. You are not his doormat. Do not let him walk across you as he enter and exits your marriage at will.  You deserve much better than that.

FiveDiamondWife